How to scare off customers
47 replies · 12 participants · 🔒 Locked by AncientEagleHelm on Jul 1, 2010
Jun 30, 2010, 10:44 AM#1
Hi there,
First of all, congratulations on the excellent servers, I have been making frequent visits to your UK 2fort and payload boxes since I discovered them.
Now the bad news. Earlier today, the players on the UK badwater server were subjected to a lengthy argument between a player called Harvester and a player/admin called Harley Quinn without quotes/.
Keeping this short, the admin became abusive, hurling expletives, derogatory and even racial remarks in response to player Harvester. The argument was over something trivial like the admin's choice of tactics (sticky spamming) but the way in which it was dealt appears to be wholly unacceptable.
Surely admins are there to keep the peace, not contribute to disorder.
In the end, after what must have been about an hour, this admin beaconed the player and then banned him but not before he had decided to become abusive to me for no reason other than the fact that I was playing a pyro at the time who happened to be healed by the medic (Harvester). Prior to this moment I hadn't spoken a word in reference to said player/admin.
I have to say, I'm very disappointed to encounter this sort of problem on an otherwise excellent server. I don't know if the admin was just having a bad day or whether he hasn't received proper training into how to deal with customers on a public server and make proper use of the tools available for dealing with problems; but I think you should look into this matter.
Unfortunately I do not have a demo of the incident, mainly because I'm playing under Linux with Wine, which is stretching things already without the added load of a demo.
The incident happened between ~10:00 and 11:00 UK time on server --- I feel that this kind of behaviour has the potential to impact your playerbase (I certainly don't feel like playing on a server which has belligerent or abusive admins) and a grep/search of the server log pertaining to this time window might be of benefit.
I should add that I am not familiar with either of the parties in the dispute.
Here are some example extracts from my log fragment which may aid in locating the conversation:
: KEEP TROLLIN TROLLIN TROLLIN
Harley Quinn without quotes : FUCK U
Harley Quinn without quotes : a sticky in yr fat face
Harley Quinn without quotes : YOUR PLAYING A CARTOON GAME
Harley Quinn without quotes : WHO GIVES A FUCK
: valve made the demoman black for a reason, to make people repel from playing is overpowered awesomeness
: no wait, i like the crying
: lol, and W + M1 is pro?
: Fuck yeah i'm talking to you
: No, im an admin
: Ban reason: Harvester
kisdomdom connected
: 1. Admin disrespect.
------------------------
I haven't included the Harvester side of the conversation because frankly, I don't see the relevance of it. An admin should not be behaving in this fashion.
Regards -
edit:server was 89.238.160.17:27015 24/7 Badwater/ Goldrush
First of all, congratulations on the excellent servers, I have been making frequent visits to your UK 2fort and payload boxes since I discovered them.
Now the bad news. Earlier today, the players on the UK badwater server were subjected to a lengthy argument between a player called Harvester and a player/admin called Harley Quinn without quotes/.
Keeping this short, the admin became abusive, hurling expletives, derogatory and even racial remarks in response to player Harvester. The argument was over something trivial like the admin's choice of tactics (sticky spamming) but the way in which it was dealt appears to be wholly unacceptable.
Surely admins are there to keep the peace, not contribute to disorder.
In the end, after what must have been about an hour, this admin beaconed the player and then banned him but not before he had decided to become abusive to me for no reason other than the fact that I was playing a pyro at the time who happened to be healed by the medic (Harvester). Prior to this moment I hadn't spoken a word in reference to said player/admin.
I have to say, I'm very disappointed to encounter this sort of problem on an otherwise excellent server. I don't know if the admin was just having a bad day or whether he hasn't received proper training into how to deal with customers on a public server and make proper use of the tools available for dealing with problems; but I think you should look into this matter.
Unfortunately I do not have a demo of the incident, mainly because I'm playing under Linux with Wine, which is stretching things already without the added load of a demo.
The incident happened between ~10:00 and 11:00 UK time on server --- I feel that this kind of behaviour has the potential to impact your playerbase (I certainly don't feel like playing on a server which has belligerent or abusive admins) and a grep/search of the server log pertaining to this time window might be of benefit.
I should add that I am not familiar with either of the parties in the dispute.
Here are some example extracts from my log fragment which may aid in locating the conversation:
: KEEP TROLLIN TROLLIN TROLLIN
Harley Quinn without quotes : FUCK U
Harley Quinn without quotes : a sticky in yr fat face
Harley Quinn without quotes : YOUR PLAYING A CARTOON GAME
Harley Quinn without quotes : WHO GIVES A FUCK
: valve made the demoman black for a reason, to make people repel from playing is overpowered awesomeness
: no wait, i like the crying
: lol, and W + M1 is pro?
: Fuck yeah i'm talking to you
: No, im an admin
: Ban reason: Harvester
kisdomdom connected
: 1. Admin disrespect.
------------------------
I haven't included the Harvester side of the conversation because frankly, I don't see the relevance of it. An admin should not be behaving in this fashion.
Regards -
edit:server was 89.238.160.17:27015 24/7 Badwater/ Goldrush
Page 2
Jun 30, 2010, 01:56 PM#21
Yes, I am Schoolgirl Socks, NOT Harvester. I made it clear in the first post that I had no connection to either party.
Harvester was NOT being abusive or using profain language, he was just complaning. My post is not about whether or not he should have been warned/banned (muting is the usual sanction against people who will not stop talking), it is about the inappropriate language and belligerent attitude of the admin.
As you can see from the post he made to me, he actually inserted the word "fucking" into the supposed copy/paste of what I said to him, simply to make himself look like less of a bully. This is shockingly dishonest behaviour.
Harvester was NOT being abusive or using profain language, he was just complaning. My post is not about whether or not he should have been warned/banned (muting is the usual sanction against people who will not stop talking), it is about the inappropriate language and belligerent attitude of the admin.
As you can see from the post he made to me, he actually inserted the word "fucking" into the supposed copy/paste of what I said to him, simply to make himself look like less of a bully. This is shockingly dishonest behaviour.
Idk if you were joking or not (Guys, this is TEXT. Without emoticons, how do you know if it's serious or not?),
but this part of the chat log is what I mean Harley:
Harley Quinn : FUCK U
Harley Quinn : a sticky in yr fat face
Harley Quinn : YOUR PLAYING A CARTOON GAME
Harley Quinn : WHO GIVES A FUCK
Either that or I am misinterpreting who this is directed towards... was that towards Harvester?
EDIT:Harley I just saw that link. Yeah it was towards Harvester. The thing is, he never said fuck u. Can anyone tell me where that is in the log? I think the author of this is really Schoolgirl, because he/she is standing up for harvester, and adding things that Harley (as I know of) did not say.
Jun 30, 2010, 01:57 PM#22
Now that you're actively lying about me, I think this proves your unsuitability for the role of administrator.
Now... who do you think we are going to believe? You, someone who has just joined to complain, or Ears, a respected admin and friend.
This.
Also dark, I do believe that the log I am reading suggests that ears is correct.
Then it has been edited.
Jun 30, 2010, 02:08 PM#23
Now that you're actively lying about me, I think this proves your unsuitability for the role of administrator.
Now... who do you think we are going to believe? You, someone who has just joined to complain, or Ears, a respected admin and friend.
I'm just sorry that I didn't record a demo, which isn't so easily edited. If you check the file access flags I'm sure that you will discover it has been edited, since that is the only possible explanation as I know that I did not say such a thing. Why would I come here to complain after swearing at an admin (and just by chance sounding exactly like him in the supposed line from the log, wonder why
), to get myself banned?Well, this has just gone from a simple feedback about administration issues to a full blown realization that your org. is has rotten apples in the barrel. My only question is whether one person edited the log, or whether you all just agreed to go along with the lie to save face. Whatever the case, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a clique of liars.
If the OWNER of this place happens to read this thread and cares at all about his business, I strongly urge, check logs, find out who edited the console log and GET RID OF THEM.
Goodbye.
Jun 30, 2010, 02:22 PM#24
I'm sorry if I offended anybody, my deepest concerns. We'll just live to frag another day 
Jun 30, 2010, 02:24 PM#25
Now that you're actively lying about me, I think this proves your unsuitability for the role of administrator.
Now... who do you think we are going to believe? You, someone who has just joined to complain, or Ears, a respected admin and friend.
I'm just sorry that I didn't record a demo, which isn't so easily edited. If you check the file access flags I'm sure that you will discover it has been edited, since that is the only possible explanation as I know that I did not say such a thing. Why would I come here to complain after swearing at an admin (and just by chance sounding exactly like him in the supposed line from the log, wonder why
Well, this has just gone from a simple feedback about administration issues to a full blown realization that your org. is has rotten apples in the barrel. My only question is whether one person edited the log, or whether you all just agreed to go along with the lie to save face. Whatever the case, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a clique of liars.
If the OWNER of this place happens to read this thread and cares at all about his business, I strongly urge, check logs, find out who edited the console log and GET RID OF THEM.
Goodbye.
All logs are recorded by HLStatsX, and no other administrator other than me has access to touch the logs. The logs are publicly available at http://stats.aprilon.net/hlstats.php?mode=chat&game=tf
Per user logs are also available (example) Ears.: http://stats.aprilon.net/hlstats.php?mo ... ayer=20082
Excuse me if there are missing pieces, I'm not sure at what timeframe you were playing, but last night our webservices was offline for 3-4 hours due to a DDOS attack on the network.
Jun 30, 2010, 02:28 PM#26
Hi there,
First of all, congratulations on the excellent servers, I have been making frequent visits to your UK 2fort
really didn't know we had a 2Fort server or multiple servers
Well I played a 2fort server with your name attached to it.. must have been someone feeding off your good rep.
Jun 30, 2010, 02:28 PM#27
Here's my few cents. I won't say wether or not this guy deserves the ban, as I have no idea in which context things were said. I believe it's extremely important to experience such situations for yourself before you can reach a conclusion.
Solely from reading the text in the chatlog, I can only conclude a few things.
Yes, Harvester was spewing alot of curses and accusations. Yes, it was extremely anoying.
On another note, and believe me when I say that I have nothing against you guys, I actually enjoy playing with and against you really much, but Harley and Ears, you are saying alot of crap from time to time.Crazy amount of f-bombs, shit, and alot of things that can be misunderstood, if you they have their eyes set on being against you. (Which most people getting killed by you feels like. Myself included.
) You probably wouldn't have as many people disliking you if you turned it down a bit. Just my suggestion.
Anyhow! I will leave this discussion up to the ones this actually concern.
Noted and point taken Maniac. I can see how ppl can sometimes take me the wrong way. HOWEVER I will chat shit back to people who chat it to me. I don't wanna fight with ppl there is a nice community at aprillon. In a joking sense I would joke too, but I didn't find his comments particuarly funny, just downright rude.
Jun 30, 2010, 02:29 PM#28
Hi there,
First of all, congratulations on the excellent servers, I have been making frequent visits to your UK 2fort
really didn't know we had a 2Fort server or multiple servers
Well I played a 2fort server with your name attached to it.. must have been someone feeding off your good rep.
Actually, I did run a 2fort server however only for a few days
Nobody else knew about it except for a few people, this was merely just to test my vps' performance Jun 30, 2010, 02:32 PM#29
Thanks for the reply. I just went to your online stats and searched for my own chat. As anyone who cares to look will see, I didn't swear at all and the people above posting false logs and claiming that I did are shameless liars muddying your reputation.
http://stats.aprilon.net/hlstats.php?mo ... king+to+me
Look for yourselves people.
2010-06-30 13:01:31 AoD im talking generally Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
2010-06-30 11:46:18 Fuck yeah i'm talking to you Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_goldrush
2010-06-30 11:46:08 Schoolgirl Socks you talking to me? Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_goldrush
I never said "fucking", I do not use that kind of language.
Ear is a liar, so is his friend.
I don't presume anyone to believe a member who only just signed up but believe your own server logs. This really is pathetic.
http://stats.aprilon.net/hlstats.php?mo ... king+to+me
Look for yourselves people.
2010-06-30 13:01:31 AoD im talking generally Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
2010-06-30 11:46:18 Fuck yeah i'm talking to you Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_goldrush
2010-06-30 11:46:08 Schoolgirl Socks you talking to me? Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_goldrush
I never said "fucking", I do not use that kind of language.
Ear is a liar, so is his friend.
I don't presume anyone to believe a member who only just signed up but believe your own server logs. This really is pathetic.
Now that you're actively lying about me, I think this proves your unsuitability for the role of administrator.
Now... who do you think we are going to believe? You, someone who has just joined to complain, or Ears, a respected admin and friend.
I'm just sorry that I didn't record a demo, which isn't so easily edited. If you check the file access flags I'm sure that you will discover it has been edited, since that is the only possible explanation as I know that I did not say such a thing. Why would I come here to complain after swearing at an admin (and just by chance sounding exactly like him in the supposed line from the log, wonder why
Well, this has just gone from a simple feedback about administration issues to a full blown realization that your org. is has rotten apples in the barrel. My only question is whether one person edited the log, or whether you all just agreed to go along with the lie to save face. Whatever the case, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a clique of liars.
If the OWNER of this place happens to read this thread and cares at all about his business, I strongly urge, check logs, find out who edited the console log and GET RID OF THEM.
Goodbye.
All logs are recorded by HLStatsX, and no other administrator other than me has access to touch the logs. The logs are publicly available at http://stats.aprilon.net/hlstats.php?mode=chat&game=tf
Per user logs are also available (example) Ears.: http://stats.aprilon.net/hlstats.php?mo ... ayer=20082
Excuse me if there are missing pieces, I'm not sure at what timeframe you were playing, but last night our webservices was offline for 3-4 hours due to a DDOS attack on the network.
Jun 30, 2010, 02:35 PM#30
Hi there,
First of all, congratulations on the excellent servers, I have been making frequent visits to your UK 2fort
really didn't know we had a 2Fort server or multiple servers
Well I played a 2fort server with your name attached to it.. must have been someone feeding off your good rep.
Actually, I did run a 2fort server however only for a few days
You should run 2fort, it's always in demand.
Jun 30, 2010, 02:53 PM#31
Harvester was NOT being abusive or using profain language, he was just complaning. My post is not about whether or not he should have been warned/banned (muting is the usual sanction against people who will not stop talking), it is about the inappropriate language and belligerent attitude of the admin.
.
010-06-30 10:44:40 Harvester homo Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
2010-06-30 10:44:38 Harvester fuck you Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
2010-06-30 10:44:08 Harvester stickyspam some more Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
Clearly.
No argument had even took place at this point. Ears and I just kritzed ur spawn @start of badwater. I 'd been playing for 5mins?
Jun 30, 2010, 02:59 PM#32
Ok, the logs don't lie. The point is that Harvester is not an admin. Admins are supposed to set an example, not stir things up further. Why didn't Ear just mute him and nip the problem in the bud, instead of playing along for a good 30 minutes before finally going on to abuse me just because I happened to be being healed by him? Power drunk with his rcon password perhaps?
To be honest, this is rather overshadowed by the fact that, in this thread we have a person entrusted as a representative of Aprilon and given admin rights, who is deliberately posting false console logs, inserting "fucking" into lines someone has said.
He's only gone and proved that doubt over his suitability is justified. I already posted a link to the real conversation, which can also be found by directly navigating to the page pertaining to the section 2010-06-30 11:45:50 > 2010-06-30 11:46:32 .
Losing your temper is one thing, deliberately slandering someone and posting false evidence, backed up by the server admin (?!) is another matter entirely.
Thank God the SERVER doesn't lie...
010-06-30 10:44:40 Harvester homo Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
2010-06-30 10:44:38 Harvester fuck you Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
2010-06-30 10:44:08 Harvester stickyspam some more Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
Clearly.
No argument had even took place at this point. Ears and I just kritzed ur spawn @start of badwater. I 'd been playing for 5mins?
To be honest, this is rather overshadowed by the fact that, in this thread we have a person entrusted as a representative of Aprilon and given admin rights, who is deliberately posting false console logs, inserting "fucking" into lines someone has said.
He's only gone and proved that doubt over his suitability is justified. I already posted a link to the real conversation, which can also be found by directly navigating to the page pertaining to the section 2010-06-30 11:45:50 > 2010-06-30 11:46:32 .
Losing your temper is one thing, deliberately slandering someone and posting false evidence, backed up by the server admin (?!) is another matter entirely.
Thank God the SERVER doesn't lie...
Harvester was NOT being abusive or using profain language, he was just complaning. My post is not about whether or not he should have been warned/banned (muting is the usual sanction against people who will not stop talking), it is about the inappropriate language and belligerent attitude of the admin.
.
010-06-30 10:44:40 Harvester homo Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
2010-06-30 10:44:38 Harvester fuck you Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
2010-06-30 10:44:08 Harvester stickyspam some more Aprilon Dynasty | 24/7 Badwater/Goldrush - aprilon.net pl_badwater
Clearly.
No argument had even took place at this point. Ears and I just kritzed ur spawn @start of badwater. I 'd been playing for 5mins?
Jun 30, 2010, 03:05 PM#33
Here's my few cents. I won't say wether or not this guy deserves the ban, as I have no idea in which context things were said. I believe it's extremely important to experience such situations for yourself before you can reach a conclusion.
Solely from reading the text in the chatlog, I can only conclude a few things.
Yes, Harvester was spewing alot of curses and accusations. Yes, it was extremely anoying.
On another note, and believe me when I say that I have nothing against you guys, I actually enjoy playing with and against you really much, but Harley and Ears, you are saying alot of crap from time to time.
Anyhow! I will leave this discussion up to the ones this actually concern.
Noted and point taken Maniac. I can see how ppl can sometimes take me the wrong way. HOWEVER I will chat shit back to people who chat it to me. I don't wanna fight with ppl there is a nice community at aprillon. In a joking sense I would joke too, but I didn't find his comments particuarly funny, just downright rude.
Duly noted. :3
Jun 30, 2010, 03:07 PM#34
Btw I've nothing against Harley personally, or the methods you employed (which were pretty effective) my own philosophy is that a tactic is good if it works, I don't buy into the politically correct stuff about fairness of tactics.
A good tactic is a tactic which works, end of story.
A good tactic is a tactic which works, end of story.
Here's my few cents. I won't say wether or not this guy deserves the ban, as I have no idea in which context things were said. I believe it's extremely important to experience such situations for yourself before you can reach a conclusion.
Solely from reading the text in the chatlog, I can only conclude a few things.
Yes, Harvester was spewing alot of curses and accusations. Yes, it was extremely anoying.
On another note, and believe me when I say that I have nothing against you guys, I actually enjoy playing with and against you really much, but Harley and Ears, you are saying alot of crap from time to time.
Anyhow! I will leave this discussion up to the ones this actually concern.
Noted and point taken Maniac. I can see how ppl can sometimes take me the wrong way. HOWEVER I will chat shit back to people who chat it to me. I don't wanna fight with ppl there is a nice community at aprillon. In a joking sense I would joke too, but I didn't find his comments particuarly funny, just downright rude.
Jun 30, 2010, 03:31 PM#35
Ok look, every post you make on here makes us more against you(Lol, pot kettle black I know(Dont ask)). Just stop persisting to argue. By the looks of it all, Ears is clearly just doing his job. Nothing is going to happen.
Jun 30, 2010, 03:50 PM#36
Ok look, every post you make on here makes us more against you(Lol, pot kettle black I know(Dont ask)). Just stop persisting to argue. By the looks of it all, Ears is clearly just doing his job. Nothing is going to happen.
Who is "us" ? The people posting false logs?
Considering that you affirmed the false log quotation as being true, something which has now been proven absolutely false by a simple link to the public HLstatsX, you should perhaps quit while you're (not really) ahead.
In any case, I am satisfied with the response I've received from Karl by PM (thanks), who has been very helpful and fair and as a result I consider the matter closed.
Jun 30, 2010, 03:58 PM#37
This.
EDIT: Lol.. this is alot like what happened with me..
I post this:
And then consider this happening right after it.
If it's over as you said in the quote, then stop posting about the dang thing! >.<
EDIT: Lol.. this is alot like what happened with me..
I post this:
Ok look, every post you make on here makes us more against you(Lol, pot kettle black I know(Dont ask)). Just stop persisting to argue. By the looks of it all, Ears is clearly just doing his job. Nothing is going to happen.
And then consider this happening right after it.
Ok look, every post you make on here makes us more against you(Lol, pot kettle black I know(Dont ask)). Just stop persisting to argue. By the looks of it all, Ears is clearly just doing his job. Nothing is going to happen.
Who is "us" ? The people posting false logs?
Considering that you affirmed the false log quotation as being true, something which has now been proven absolutely false by a simple link to the public HLstatsX, you should perhaps quit while you're (not really) ahead.
In any case, I am satisfied with the response I've received from Karl by PM (thanks), who has been very helpful and fair and as a result I consider the matter closed.
If it's over as you said in the quote, then stop posting about the dang thing! >.<
Jun 30, 2010, 04:24 PM#38
Deja vú, anyone?
Elf, please stay out of this. You're in no right to speak for "us" (read. Aministrators/people involved), which is basicly just very rude. I don't care if someone says something to you, related to this issue, which you pass on. It should come from that person's mouth.
Don't mind you stating your oppinion, but quit speaking on other people's behalf.
Elf, please stay out of this. You're in no right to speak for "us" (read. Aministrators/people involved), which is basicly just very rude. I don't care if someone says something to you, related to this issue, which you pass on. It should come from that person's mouth.
Don't mind you stating your oppinion, but quit speaking on other people's behalf.
Jun 30, 2010, 09:30 PM#39
Oh come on, leave Deth alone, he didn't do you anything, and he's just trying to help. Give him a chance.
And also, on the topic, I've never had any trouble with Schoolgirls Socks, he's a good player, but he doesn't talk alot, though this seems that is on that Harvester was banned, right? I've been playing with him a couple of times, and as I can remember he doesn't do anything wrong. Also, can't really say he did say too much after what I read about this.
And also, on the topic, I've never had any trouble with Schoolgirls Socks, he's a good player, but he doesn't talk alot, though this seems that is on that Harvester was banned, right? I've been playing with him a couple of times, and as I can remember he doesn't do anything wrong. Also, can't really say he did say too much after what I read about this.
Jun 30, 2010, 09:34 PM#40
To be completely honest:
I will pretty much damn self decide wether or not I'm against someone.
I never had anything personal against Elf, which is why I never really participated in that deal, so stop saying stuff about me, which you don't know anything about, please.
But this is not the right place for this discussion, so I will be quiet now and stay on topic.
Ok look, every post you make on here makes us more against you.Made me angry. Which is very rare.
I will pretty much damn self decide wether or not I'm against someone.
I never had anything personal against Elf, which is why I never really participated in that deal, so stop saying stuff about me, which you don't know anything about, please.
But this is not the right place for this discussion, so I will be quiet now and stay on topic.